Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/05

Commons Gazette 2024-05

• Currently, there are 185 sysops.
• User:CGoubert-WMF & User:HNowlan (WMF) made improvements to the stability of large uploads (T358308).

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Edited by Bawolff (talk) and RZuo (talk).

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Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 10:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

SVG and thumbnails not updated

Your kind attention (and hopefully effective assistance) might be welcome here. Thanks in advance. —ReadOnlyAccount (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

People of / People in

Hi, While most categories are "People of ...", couples are Couples in .... Any reason? Yann (talk) 06:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

there's also Category:People by country of location.

origin vs location. RZuo (talk) 07:23, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Each can make sense. Certainly almost no category about a person could be a subcat of a "people in" category, because people move. Conversely, sometimes all we know is where someone was photographed, with no idea where they may have been from (or knowing full well they were from someowhere else). - Jmabel ! talk 14:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Privacy issue

I am sure that File:Venedig-352-Klingeln-2003-gje.jpg has multiple privacy issue, there are various family surnames. Is there any Commons rules broken? --93.47.37.244 09:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

As long as the location of this residential building is not publicly identifiable, there are actually no rules broken. Regards --A.Savin 09:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

IMO, privacy concerns usually have no merits and deletion requests usually result to "kept". See COM:Non-copyright restrictions. However, if the uploader him/herself decides to nominate their image on their own, then admins may grant deletions (based on non-copyright concerns) as courtesy. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 10:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

The image was 16 years old when uploaded and is now 21 years old. That to me alleviates any privacy concerns. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:49, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Videogame thumbnail

I attempted to upload a game thumbnail picture, but it got quickly deleted. Is there any legit way to upload it? The game producer has told me that everything from this webpage "can be published on any website", as it is the game's official press kit, but currently, no success. Siberian Snake (talk) 14:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Siberian Snake: Hi, and welcome. Please have the game producer send permission via VRT with a carbon copy to you to keep you in the loop.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

A reminder that we don't just share in this place. We make available for other people for all purposes, including commercial use. Especially that last thing is not always what a producer might expect. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:52, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

PD-USGov-POTUS Flickr account uploading photos under a non-commercial license

How do we go on about this? flickr2commons won't work for obvious reasons--Trade (talk) 03:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

My longstanding requests for Flickr2Commons (and more recently, Flickypedia) to allow uploads by trusted users of PD images wrongly tagged on Flickr with non-free licences have, to date, fallen on stony ground :( Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:16, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

AI generated images of Shinto deities

I noticed that it seems the majority of Shinto deities have no images available here. Some of these deities are relatively important so I feel they should have images to give people some idea about them. Would it be acceptable to upload ai generated images for this purpose or would that violate rules of commons? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 16:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: I would expect that for any Shinto deities where there is a traditional visual representation, it should be easy to find images old enough to be in the public domain and use those. What is the difficulty in doing so? If there is no traditional representation, what would be the basis to consider these AI images culturally valid? - Jmabel ! talk 18:43, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel you make a very good point. I am unsure what the reason behind the lack of visual representations here is, but they are very hard to come across. Shinto is not traditionally ancionistic, but for many deities, even seemingly relatively prominent ones it seems the majority of visual representations are from Gacha games or Shin Megami Tensei. It is quite confusing. Maybe people just are not searching for and uploading enough paintings. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 18:50, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: do you have specific deities in mind as an example? --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:22, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@HyperGaruda Ame no Hoakari is the one I was thinking of. He comes up a lot when talking about the Tenson Korin, but I cannot find any images at all. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 19:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Any images in the public domain, or in general? If the latter - what do you expect the AI-based image to be based on? AI isn't a crystal ball. Omphalographer (talk) 21:52, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

If you could provide a list of these deities (or point us to a place where we can find which ones you mean) we can help look for visual representations in the public domain and upload those directly. I'm personally really not a fan of using AI if alternatives exist, but I don't know how other editors feel. ReneeWrites (talk) 19:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@ReneeWrites I will get back to you with a list. Thank you for your help! Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 19:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I cannot imagine AI-generated images being appropriate illustrations for these subjects. They fall into the same category as user-created artworks, which are generally considered out-of-scope except for edge cases (flags and heraldry) where a standardized and detailed starting description is available. That does not appear to be the case here. AI-generated images have additional concerns which have been discussed at length on Commons. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

It's probably a shot in the dark, but you might ask someone from Japan on here to take pictures of the statues of these people. I know they exist, but apparently are hard to find images of for some reason. Especially ones that are freely licensed. Maybe it could be turned into a Wiki Loves Monuments project or something though. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:51, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Another tram question

Trying to identify the location of File:TramFromAbove(50352061186).jpg, i think it's the same tram model as here: File:Tram Ce 4-4 145 + Anh. C4 311 (22053976288).jpg , thus pointing to Berne / Switzerland, but i don't know if the same tram model was used in different swiss towns, too. There was a line 11 in Berne, between main station and Fischermätteli, but i wasn't able to match the street and the buildings to any location there. Is anyone able to recognize the street or the buildings? Fl.schmitt (talk) 19:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fl.schmitt: many thanks for narrowing it down to Bern, that made it a lot easier. I am fairly sure we are looking over Hirschengraben, toward the northeast. Quite likely a tourist photographed this from a window or balcony of the Hotel National. Most of the buildings in the back (address numbers 1 to 11) are visible in File:ETH-BIB-Bern-LBS H1-026968.tif, except for the one at number 9 (probably built some time after the tram picture). File:ETH-BIB-Bern-LBS H1-012239.tif is a few years older and less sharp, but does seem to confirm all the façades we see in the tram picture. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@HyperGaruda - great, thanks a lot! In fact, Hirschengraben fits the old photography perfectly. I've searched in vain at Schwarzentorstrasse (similar street layout, but completely different buildings). I agree also regarding the camera position. Wonderful - another unidentified location pinned :-)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Fl.schmitt (talk) 05:58, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Fl.schmitt (talk) 05:58, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Question about Wiki Loves Earth 2024

COM:WLE2024 This page has a list of participating countries, and my country is not among them. Participating countries each have their own prize pools and judges. Are these separate from the event-wide judging process, and if so, can people from countries that aren't participating still take part in the contest and be eligible for the judging process? --ReneeWrites (talk) 07:58, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Probably better to ask at Commons talk:Wiki Loves Earth 2024. - Jmabel ! talk 14:54, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll crosspost my question there, but people there don't seem to have much luck, considering one topic that's brought up has not been dealt with for years. The Village Pump sees a lot more activity and gets a lot more eyeballs. ReneeWrites (talk) 10:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

It's better to ask there because it concerns WLE. there aren't any old topics at the wle 2024 discussion page.

I guess your question could be answered by the international orga.

I'm a member of the German WLE organisastion team, I try to answer you as far as I understand :-)

When your country doesn't participate at WLE, you can't participate with pictures of your country at WLE. But you can participate at other WLE competitions from other countrys. You are from the Netherlands the German WLE competition waits for your pictures of German protected areas. Greetings Z ^thomas 16:48, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Steamboat Willie – Frame by frame

Hi!

As the film "Steamboat Willie" is in the public domain now, would it make sense to upload the frames as single frames here? The Internet Archive offers a lossless movie file (https://archive.org/download/steamboat-willie-16mm-film-scan-4k-lossless/) from where it would be possible to extract all single frames.

Greetings --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 06:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

how many frames in total?

why not the movie directly? RZuo (talk) 07:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

The file is as an MOV file with a filesize of approx. 32 GiB. It should be ca. 10000 frames in total --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 07:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Some specific frames, yes. All the frames separately? I don't see the point. But the whole movie, yes. Yann (talk) 07:55, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I could try a high-quality conversion of the mov file to webm (it wouldn't be lossless, but probably without visible artifacts) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 07:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that would be useful. As the Quicktime version is 34.2GB, it can't be done with COM:V2C. Yann (talk) 07:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok! --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

You can do it with lossless AV1 in webm, and split the result in 5GiB chunks for upload to commons. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm - p7.ee/p) (talk) 23:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I did upload it with File:Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 01 von 03.webm, File:Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 02 von 03.webm, File:Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 03 von 03.webm, because I thought, lossless would result in too large total filesize --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 08:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 01 von 03.webm
• Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 02 von 03.webm
• Steamboat Willie (16mm Film Scan) ProRes (3400x2550) 03 von 03.webm

Tram construction

It looks like France but which city? Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Do you want to give us some clues, as to where you were, in September 2002? _Broichmore (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Tram? This looks like a 1435 mm railroad to me. Or even bigger? Konijnewolf (talk) 22:35, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Trams can go on standard gauge — see Category:1435 mm track gauge trams. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 14:06, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

You were standing at approximately [45.69445°N, 4.94101°E], looking west, down Boulevard Edouard Herriot in Saint-Priest. This particular stretch of rail would eventually become Category:Esplanade des Arts (Lyon Tram). --HyperGaruda (talk) 06:59, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

i'm amazed by your geotagging skills. Orz.

how do you always manage to pinpoint these places? they dont even look so similar on google maps streetviews. RZuo (talk) 09:21, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Aww, you are flattering me, but if you really want to know... First I had a detailed look around the photo, the architecture is typical of suburban residential mid/high-rises in France, and then there are a couple of signs in the distance in French, but the license plates were decisive in excluding other French-speaking countries. I then checked what other uploads Smiley.toerist photographed in September 2002; in relation to France I saw Le-Puy-en-Velay and Vienne, both relatively close to each other. Trams are usually found only in big cities and the nearest one is Lyon. According to en:Lyon tramway, after the 2001 opening, line T2 was extended in October 2003, meaning construction work as photographed would have taken place before that, which nicely fits the hints so far. From here I used Google Maps/StreetView/Earth (their historical aerial and street-level imagery is exceptionally useful) to see where on that extension one can find a tramway slightly bending to the left and passing a curved building. The apartment blocks are quite generic, but that curved building in the distance was a key hint in confirming the right location. Finally I try to place myself in the photographer's shoes to figure out the most likely position for taking the picture with this arrangement. Tl;dr: some background knowledge, looking up history, a lot of browsing through Google Maps/Earth/StreetView, and a great deal of luck ;) --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

excellent detective skills! Orzzzz. thx a lot for sharing!

i forgot about checking related uploads (from which approximate location might be inferred). i gave up when i saw that it's a pre-internet-boom photo so most shops would probably have changed. RZuo (talk) 18:08, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@HyperGaruda: You are really good at it. It's an incredible skill. Good for you. Good for us ;) MenkinAlRire (talk) 23:03, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks to all. I suspected something like this location as the image was just after Le-Puy-en-Velay, but I learned to never make any assumption, as often the next image on the film could be weeks later somewhere totaly different.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:30, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Files from Personal Creations Flickr stream

712 images in this Category. I think they all should be deleted. Every image (bar 1 that I edited) contains a link in the Description to commercial web site advertising personalised goods. Each Description consists of this plus a superfluous part of the Licence conditions and nothing more. So each would need the Description editing Many of the files are potentially Copyright Vios - the licence of the photos is correct on Flickr but they are Derivative Works of the items photographed. Its a lot of work to go through the whole lot editing.

In my opinion the whole photostream was created as an advertising promotion for website. Does the other Users agree? Is there is a simple way to delete all files in the Category? I am not very good with Mass Deletion nominations and if I were to follow the instructions in Help it would seem I would have to create a list of 712 files!! Suggestions?? --Headlock0225 (talk) 09:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. The descriptions containing the license conditions is no big deal. The titles describes the images sufficiently anyways Trade (talk) 09:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes you're right. The descriptions containing the license conditions is no big deal. What is big deal is that web link in every Description. One option is to do a mass edit to remove the web link in every description but I don't know how to do that. Or we accept my contention that the whole lot is one big advertising promotion and delete all 712 files . Headlock0225 (talk) 10:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

If those images are useful in Commons and in scope, the fact they are sourced and linked to a commercial website is no problem.

If those images aren't useful in Commons or not in scope, they should be deleted, but not because of the link.

The descriptions could be improved, with the conditions and the link moved to a more appropriate section. You can do it by hand for each image or learn how to do batch edits. However, I would say that is one of the least useful uses of a Commons editor's time, but YMMV and since we are all volunteers it's up to each one to choose their tasks and if you want to take this one it's perfectly fine.--Pere prlpz (talk) 11:23, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@Headlock0225: I zapped that spam for you using VFC.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:43, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you - that is just what I was hoping someone would do! Headlock0225 (talk) 16:34, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

We are gonna be real busy if we have to delete all photos that includes links to the author's website Trade (talk) 12:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I will help with the descriptions and categorization. GeorgHH • talk   12:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks Headlock0225 (talk) 16:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

CropTool

Seems to be down again. I keep getting the error message: "Upload failed! undefined ". --Rosiestep (talk) 13:37, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I am also facing issues with the tool from yesterday.--Rocky Masum (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Hungarian category without upper categories

Category:MÁV machine repair plant This is a fairly confusing categorie with some images of rail vehicles and some derelict site.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I added Category:Economy of Budapest. Ymblanter (talk) 15:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Error in Upload Wizard

When I go to "upload file" in the navigation bar on the left, it says:

"Sorry, we could not find a tutorial in your language. The English one is shown instead."

However, my language is set to Canadian English. Is this a bug? It's been doing this all the time.

Thanks! Myrealnamm (💬talk · ✏️contribs) at 23:16, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

It's probably a bug that "en" does not normalize to being identical to "en-CA" in this case or a "bug" that no one has "translated" from en to en-CA. See also Commons:Upload Wizard feedback. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)